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 Post subject: MegaSquirt VS Every other aftermarket EMS on the planet
PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2010 5:11 pm 
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Instead of polluting multiple threads on the relative merits of other EMS versus MegaSquirt, why don't we just post here about WHY people think those solutions are better?

Personally, I believe that MS gets a bad rep because it is a DIY solution. From getting the board and having to do the soldering yourself, to putting in the numbers for load vs injector flow. It's inexpensive, and thus CHEAP.

However, THAT is the core reason why it's popular. You can get the box for a couple of bills. Wiring it up isn't rocket science. A $100 laptop from craigslist will run the software you need to set it up and tune it.

I have no issues with other EMS products, other than the fact that they're too expensive for my blood. I'm not a huge fan of piggyback systems either - they're fine I suppose, but it just seems like a kludge instead of a solution. For those wanting to keep a stock system, like if you're on a lease and don't want to hack into the wiring to add a true EMS, that would be acceptable.

Thoughts?

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 Post subject: Re: MegaSquirt VS Every other aftermarket EMS on the planet
PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2010 6:32 pm 
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As far as I been able to discover, my Perfect Power SMT6 has the same resolution and tuning capabilities as the first generation of Megasquirt. As long as i don't touch it, L.H. 2.2 will run 12 pounds of boost quite happily, after that though, I can use the SMT6 to bring my fuel and timing targets to where i want them.

My main issue with megasquirt is that it does not have the map resolution i seek when i want to make big, smooth power.

A couple of the stand alone EMS systems i am looking at for my next build include features like maf and map inputs, sequential injector firing, true coil-on-plug ICP ignition, they ability to manage boost and methanol injection, and 3D mapping. Most of them even have the capability to run two fuel setups; Say i am running two fuel cells, two pumps, two fuel rails, and two sets of injectors. I could have one tank filled with C16, and when i want to unleash monster power, have the EMS slowly phase out the pump gas rail while flowing the race gas rail, or mix and match throughout the map to create different octane levels as i travel through load cells. I figure if my setup is limited to say. . . 450 horsepower . . . I would like to hit that target number as soon as possible, and hold it for as long as possible. The higher resolution the map is, the easier it is (or even possible for that matter) to squeeze every last ft-lb of torque out of that engine's power curve.

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Last edited by 1983Turbo242 on Fri Jan 22, 2010 6:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: MegaSquirt VS Every other aftermarket EMS on the planet
PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2010 6:34 pm 
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Can someone PLEASE send me a link to the highest horsepower Megasquirted car they can find?

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 Post subject: Re: MegaSquirt VS Every other aftermarket EMS on the planet
PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2010 7:13 pm 
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Here's a good place to start, I looked in the Porsche forum and found a 400+ HP car...

http://www.msruns.com/viewforum.php?f=107


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 Post subject: Re: MegaSquirt VS Every other aftermarket EMS on the planet
PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2010 7:21 pm 
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volvogeek wrote:
Here's a good place to start, I looked in the Porsche forum and found a 400+ HP car...

http://www.msruns.com/viewforum.php?f=107


Can someone PLEASE send me a link to a 600+ horse megasquirted car?

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 Post subject: Re: MegaSquirt VS Every other aftermarket EMS on the planet
PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2010 8:19 pm 
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Before anyone does that, Brian - what's your lower limit on the horsepower that a MS car should handle? If I find a 600+ HP car, will you then want a 800+ HP car? Or 1000+? I doubt I'm going to find a top-fuel funny car running MegaSquirt.


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 Post subject: Re: MegaSquirt VS Every other aftermarket EMS on the planet
PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2010 8:31 pm 
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http://www.msruns.com/viewtopic.php?f=89&t=22858 - MKIV Supra, ~540ish

http://www.msruns.com/viewtopic.php?f=106&t=22756 - Mercedes i6 Turbo, claimed 750 (links are now broken)

http://www.msextra.com/forums/viewtopic ... 04&t=27558 - Mercedes 300E, 650ish

Are your search fingers broken?

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 Post subject: Re: MegaSquirt VS Every other aftermarket EMS on the planet
PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2010 9:03 pm 
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Again, the EMS does not denote how high you can get the horsepower, the engine does. If you take the one motor and dyno it with a properly tuned Megasquirt, Haltec, Wolf or WHATEVER it will always have about the same HP output.

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 Post subject: Re: MegaSquirt VS Every other aftermarket EMS on the planet
PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2010 9:04 pm 
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volvogeek wrote:
http://www.msruns.com/viewtopic.php?f=89&t=22858 - MKIV Supra, ~540ish

http://www.msruns.com/viewtopic.php?f=106&t=22756 - Mercedes i6 Turbo, claimed 750 (links are now broken)

http://www.msextra.com/forums/viewtopic ... 04&t=27558 - Mercedes 300E, 650ish

Are your search fingers broken?


No, i am busy searching worthwhile EMS systems.

I am glad to see a couple people managed to break 500 hp with MS. All i could find out from the links is that the Merc 300E was running a wasted spark ignition on MS version 1 (roughly the same processing power my car has right now)

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 Post subject: Re: MegaSquirt VS Every other aftermarket EMS on the planet
PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2010 9:06 pm 
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evolwun wrote:
Again, the EMS does not denote how high you can get the horsepower, the engine does. If you take the one motor and dyno it with a properly tuned Megasquirt, Haltec, Wolf or WHATEVER it will always have about the same HP output.


That is not true, The power curves and peak can very significantly depending on how well you can adjust fuel/spark timing. Please wait to have information to back up your claims before you make yourself look like a fool.

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90+, NPR, 3" AMM, GREENTOPS, 3" D.P., MSnS.
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 Post subject: Re: MegaSquirt VS Every other aftermarket EMS on the planet
PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2010 9:10 pm 
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The adjustability you speak of depends on the hardware the EMS is controlling. Give me an example of how I am wrong. You have not given me any facts that make me think you know anything at all about what you are mouthing off about.

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 Post subject: Re: MegaSquirt VS Every other aftermarket EMS on the planet
PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2010 9:20 pm 
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evolwun wrote:
The adjustability you speak of depends on the hardware the EMS is controlling. Give me an example of how I am wrong. You have not given me any facts that make me think you know anything at all about what you are mouthing off about.


A good tune comes down to the ability of the operator to dial in the fuel and ignition curves as close to ideal (ideal being unique to each setup) as possible. Megasquirt simply does not have the resolution, inputs/outputs, or processing speed to compete with the big boys.

Have you ever looked at a dyno chart of a Megasquirted car versus a car running a high end EMS system?
Most mega squirt dyno charts i have seen look like this
Image

Where as most high quality EMSs tend to have dyno chart that look like this
Image

Notice how one of them is ragged and inconsistent, while the other is a very smooth and hard pull?

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 Post subject: Re: MegaSquirt VS Every other aftermarket EMS on the planet
PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2010 9:20 pm 
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... funny, I just checked out what kind of ignition hardware you can buy for Haltec and Wolf... ITS ALL OEM COIL PACKS!! The same stuff that you can run on Megasquirt.

I think you are mistaking my arguments as trying to prove that MS is the best.... I NEVER said that. I just said that the other may not be that much better.

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 Post subject: Re: MegaSquirt VS Every other aftermarket EMS on the planet
PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2010 9:24 pm 
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Strike my looks the same comment.... again, those are different motors. It does not show much.

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 Post subject: Re: MegaSquirt VS Every other aftermarket EMS on the planet
PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2010 9:25 pm 
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evolwun wrote:
... funny, I just checked out what kind of ignition hardware you can buy for Haltec and Wolf... ITS ALL OEM COIL PACKS!! The same stuff that you can run on Megasquirt.

I think you are mistaking my arguments as trying to prove that MS is the best.... I NEVER said that. I just said that the other may not be that much better.


Read closer. Wolf and Haltec can run them as true coil-on-plug individually fired coil packs. Megasquirt uses a wasted-spark setup IIRC.

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http://ovtuners.org/gallery2/v/members/1983Turbo242/
90+, NPR, 3" AMM, GREENTOPS, 3" D.P., MSnS.
1996 850 Turbo


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 Post subject: Re: MegaSquirt VS Every other aftermarket EMS on the planet
PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2010 9:28 pm 
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Nope, it can do COP. And before you go there, it can to sequential injection too.

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 Post subject: Re: MegaSquirt VS Every other aftermarket EMS on the planet
PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2010 9:29 pm 
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evolwun wrote:
Nope, it can do COP. And before you go there, it can to sequential injection too.


How many injectors?

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http://ovtuners.org/gallery2/v/members/1983Turbo242/
90+, NPR, 3" AMM, GREENTOPS, 3" D.P., MSnS.
1996 850 Turbo


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 Post subject: Re: MegaSquirt VS Every other aftermarket EMS on the planet
PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2010 9:31 pm 
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I keep forgetting i am wasting my breath here.

90+ MANIFOLD, NPR, GREENTOPS, 16T ANGLE FLANGE, 3" D.P., MSnS. Thats the only way that you can make power bro.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

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90+, NPR, 3" AMM, GREENTOPS, 3" D.P., MSnS.
1996 850 Turbo


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 Post subject: Re: MegaSquirt VS Every other aftermarket EMS on the planet
PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2010 9:33 pm 
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Not wasting your breath, just losing an argument.

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 Post subject: Re: MegaSquirt VS Every other aftermarket EMS on the planet
PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2010 9:33 pm 
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1983Turbo242 wrote:
evolwun wrote:
... funny, I just checked out what kind of ignition hardware you can buy for Haltec and Wolf... ITS ALL OEM COIL PACKS!! The same stuff that you can run on Megasquirt.

I think you are mistaking my arguments as trying to prove that MS is the best.... I NEVER said that. I just said that the other may not be that much better.


Read closer. Wolf and Haltec can run them as true coil-on-plug individually fired coil packs. Megasquirt uses a wasted-spark setup IIRC.

http://www.msextra.com/doc/ms3/engine_config.html

Quote:
4 cylinder engines

Even fire and odd fire supported.
The even-fire inline four cylinder is the most common configuration for car engines.
Bike engines may be oddfire, the code supports alterating or banked (V-max) oddfiring.
Numerous special wheel decoders exist for OEM specified wheel patterns.
Choose "Single coil", "Wasted Spark" or "COP" to match your engine.

Hey look at that, COP on MegaSquirt!


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